What is the Gospel?
We speak so much about incarnational ..but when it comes to evangelism there are so many people that are so disconnected from their faith that it is not only irrelevant to the world around them but it is powerless in them as well.
Mental assent is not missional life! We like to cramm our evangelism in a moment when we have someone cornered in the bathroom or in a line up at starbucks, or lunch etc [or enter cheesy street evangelist with 'Turn or Burn Sandwich board].
I have a friend who encountered a certain rally of Christians marching and waving their 'Pro-life' paraphanalia for all to see. MY Friend decided to make a sign that said 'Pro-choice' and stand in an alternate line and wave her banner. The result was interesting... the people began shouting and swearing at her and speaking 'death filled' words. These people were Waving one sign for life and their words and actions were speaking death.
Is this the Gospel that we are proclaiming?
I have a friend who encountered a certain rally of Christians marching and waving their 'Pro-life' paraphanalia for all to see. MY Friend decided to make a sign that said 'Pro-choice' and stand in an alternate line and wave her banner. The result was interesting... the people began shouting and swearing at her and speaking 'death filled' words. These people were Waving one sign for life and their words and actions were speaking death.
Is this the Gospel that we are proclaiming?
Do we assume that everyone who is not a "Xian' is deaf and cannot hear from God?
My thought I want to throw out this week is this...
"Christians would be far more like Jesus if they focused on drawing out of people what God has already left in them rather than trying to put in what God has left out"
Comments?
31 comments:
isn't it amusing that your friend wanted to see if she could provoke the pro-lifers? as far as street evangelists, you or I may find them annoying, or even embarressing, but I do know of several people who started thier journey with Christ because of some "dude" on a bullhorn on a corner.
we are all called by God to His work. What I am called to is probably far different than what you do, or are called to..........
the Bible is not all roses, sunshine, and poodles in designer sweaters. there is a flipside to that reality. like the thorns, sunburn, and poop........
james (bro of christ) nailed the church pretty hard in his letter, so did peter, yes we should be looking at the good in everybody, not push our religion, reachout and touch lives, it is all good......
i wonder though, an incredible evangelist that has with stood the test of time, made a very simple comment. you have maybe only one time to close the deal, there is no guarantee that the person you encounter will ever hear the message of Christ again before they die...........yup, maybe bullhorns and t-shirts are not the best way, but sometimes we only have one time, one shot, so to speak, to share our faith........its not all hell fire and brimstone, but perhaps that person you encounter and think, hmmmm, i need to build a relationship with them, maybe you were the last person they ever talk to about Christ......
Regardless of our personal preferences, we need to honor and prefer one another in love...
unconditionally.. and let the Lord be the judge of men's hearts.
As for me, I know I have enough to deal with in my own heart...Lord have mercy on me, a sinner....saved by grace..
When I was in Grade 6, I wasn't a Christian. Believe me, I wasn't.
But, I was bullied at school consistantly everyday, and one day it became too much, and so I simply wanted to kill myself. Yes, it was simple. I had a plan and everything. But, instead, I decided to pray to God. Why? I don't know. BUt, I know the movie, "Angels In The Out Field" had a major role to play in my journey to Christ. Because I prayed that day like that kid in the movie, only I said, "God, if you're real, get me out of this place."
Two weeks later my dad got a job offer, so we moved from Sooke, on Vancouver Island, to Abbotsford, BC. I know God listens to nonchristians. I also know that non-christians hear from God even if they don't know it!
In regards to the comment about bullhorns and that being the last time they may hear the gospel... I'm a firm believer that when you grab the bullhorn, if you even SHOULD it should be VERY clear and you should KNOW FOR SURE that God has called you to do it. And if so, God would never ever, from what I understand of his character, give a turn or burn speech (unless he was talking to the Church) but rather give a message of love and grace and peace. Yeah, those people will need to hear the otherside of the coin... but where's the love? And, "Let us not love with words or tongues, but in actions and in truth."
Which makes me ask one question, what is 'truth'?
Scripture says that Christ is truth. He is the total embodiement of truth.
When you live in truth you live in Christ.
As far as bullhorns, "turn or burn messages" I can not say God would not ever direct someone to do that. Read through the minor prophets, I mean look at Jonah, thats why he ran from doing what he was called to do! He knew God would forgive them after he gave the turn or burn message!
God hasn't changed has He? I know it is not the way the current generation wants to represent Christ, but we need to be careful when we say never, or God wouldn't do this or that, when He has chosen people to do it before.
Amen and Amen. God is both kind and severe..I dont always like the Message verson but in this case I think its applicable:
Romans 11:21-23 (The Message)If God didn't think twice about taking pruning shears to the natural branches, why would he hesitate over you? He wouldn't give it a second thought. Make sure you stay alert to these qualities of gentle kindness and ruthless severity that exist side by side in God—ruthless with the deadwood, gentle with the grafted shoot. But don't presume on this gentleness. The moment you become deadwood, you're out of there.
And don't get to feeling superior to those pruned branches down on the ground. If they don't persist in remaining deadwood, they could very well get grafted back in. God can do that. He can perform miracle grafts. Why, if he could graft you—branches cut from a tree out in the wild—into an orchard tree, he certainly isn't going to have any trouble grafting branches back into the tree they grew from in the first place. Just be glad you're in the tree, and hope for the best for the others.
Amen and Amen. God is both kind and severe..I dont always like the Message verson but in this case I think its applicable:
Romans 11:21-23 (The Message)If God didn't think twice about taking pruning shears to the natural branches, why would he hesitate over you? He wouldn't give it a second thought. Make sure you stay alert to these qualities of gentle kindness and ruthless severity that exist side by side in God—ruthless with the deadwood, gentle with the grafted shoot. But don't presume on this gentleness. The moment you become deadwood, you're out of there.
And don't get to feeling superior to those pruned branches down on the ground. If they don't persist in remaining deadwood, they could very well get grafted back in. God can do that. He can perform miracle grafts. Why, if he could graft you—branches cut from a tree out in the wild—into an orchard tree, he certainly isn't going to have any trouble grafting branches back into the tree they grew from in the first place. Just be glad you're in the tree, and hope for the best for the others.
In regards to your thought mark, when you say "drawing out of people" are you refering to Christians or non or both?
I find it easier to shout down a microphone than to engage in discussion with people on their thoughts and ideas.
However, I find it far more effective to engage in discussion with people than just shout at them down a microphone.
That is all from me... for now.
steve,
so whats the what? are you right or are they wrong? same question different way of asking!
study your scripture man. your blog says you are a preacher....before you go out and preach, take a few to sit and learn, rushing in can sometimes cause you to crash into a wall unneccessarily
"when you say "drawing out of people" are you refering to Christians or non or both?"
Does it matter?
hey all this is markimus from the beach...lol...
Part of my reasoning for writing this was to dig deeper into some of our hidden values that are never questioned.
I want to comment on a few things... For the sake of speed I will adress anonymous as one but knowing they could be several people.
1) zee you asked "when you say "drawing out of people"
are you refering to Christians or non or both? " I would say neither... This is beyond such distinctions... Probably best defined as ... Anyone who is a living breathing human being
"man(kind) is created in His image"
2) in terms of OT prophets and making reference to them. This I agree that there are moments for tough love. But it is scriptural rape to suggest that we take those examples and make precedents for how xians today should act. Secondly... There is no such statements in jonah where he did such a thing as shouting in the streets... He addressed the city... By doing this it was not a bullhorn approach... It would have been him approaching the influences in the city ... The seat of city gov't, The commerce and the spiritual leaders. This is how this approach is taken in many OT prophets and even NT apostles.
Speaking to a city is not a crazy man shouting and screaming at the top of his lungs.
This being said... I am not dead against someone doing such a thing... However if we are holding that in value over other approaches then I think we hae a misplaced value system.
3) a statement has been made 'what about the few that have been saved' by this approach. My response is what about the thousands who will have nothing to do with Jesus because they were so turned off by a loud mouth shouting spiritual expletives at them. There will be people who will have to answer to God for the seekers they turned away by their selfish and small sited approach to reaching lost people.
4) anonymous ... Making statements about steve and his misinterpretation of scriptures seems unprovoked. He has a valid point as so do you... Let your wisdom be advocated by your ability to build others up and provoke them to think. If that was your intent then clear that up please.
this article has the potential to cloud our thinking because of the way I have 'approached' it. this was by design to make a point. are we busy trying to defend an approach or are we about finding the hand of God writing in the hearts of men... Zee I can see you caught that. lets think this through.
This discussion has fallen in line with my most current thought line...Truth can be found everywhere. I know the ramblings about the fallen nature of man, but I've recently become more aware of the desire of the nature of all things to fall in line with truth. It holds to people too. I think what would help us all the most would be to find those traces of truth in people and explore it together...it inevitably leads to God.
zee well put...
let go back to the garden... man was created very good... do we think everything was completely lost at the sin of adam... that cannot be the case otherwise we have no hope of salvation... there are inklings of truth in all men... who we partner with God to draw that truth to the surface?
Anonymous,
Thank you for the correction.
Question... who be you?
I do study before I preach... I study what I'm supposed to be preaching on... hehe. I've got a lot of learning and growing to do. But again, thanks for the correction. When I think of Jonah.. I always forget who he was running from and why. Hopefully it sticks this time with me.
However, like Mark was saying, with Jonah does it really say there is a 'turn or burn' message? It just says preach against them. I wouldn't mind finding out what the origninal language was saying. But to me, that doesn't imply a turn or burn message. To me, it could very well be the way I live that preaches against this N.A. culture. I can see how "preach against them" can be a turn or burn idea.. but the people heard the message and turned from thier ways, not only that but they had a fast. I don't see turn or burn anywhere. Jonah obviously had a message from the Lord. But who's to say that it didn't entail a full message of grace, love, and compassion, which I believe every message from God would and should encorprate especially because of Jesus.
What I'm trying to say is that if there is someone who feels that must preach on a street corner I believe it should be very clear to them that God said they should do it.. and odds are if it really is from God more people will be thinking something similar and there will be confirmation (but maybe not, who really knows?). And again, from what I see as a consistant theme God always encorprates a message of Grace. I only notice the 'turn or burn' kind of speaking when in regards to the church and it's actions or the religious leaders, or God's people. The people who claim to be under God or God claims as His.
I've tried to think of examples that would go against this thought and back up yours. and if you can back up with what 'PReach against" means in the original text that would be great, and I would love to study that further. I would really like to see if God uses turn or burn against anyone. Because I haven't seen it yet. Ultimately that is the choice, but that's for God to say I think, and not us.
On the note of 'truth'... What is truth? I made a post recently on that on my blog. www.stevenatorlink.blogspot.com so if you guys have some thoughts please feel free to blot them down to give me something more to chew on! Thanks.
mark,
I find it interesting that you say taking from the old and using it is scriptural rape! what a sad statement! What Scripture did Christ preach from? What about Peter in Acts? I get your point about the bullhorn thing, and I agree to disagree with you.......but Jonah is one example of many who were told God was going to destroy them if they did not turn from thier ways....or am I wrong in my OT Theology?
Preaching all love, and grace, and fluff is sad, I mean even Christ nailed people (Mtt 25 for example), look in the NT for our examples, wanna start with James, or Peter?
Sometimes it is what it is......I am not raping scripture,,nor am I twisting it!
Steve made a point in saying that God would not.......I used one example out of many from scripture, I can do it out of the NT as well.
I find it slightly amusing that so many people want the Gospel to be non-offensive. Tell ya what I see, the Gospel is offensive, especially to those who do not know the truth.
Anon...
Mark said, "But it is scriptural rape to suggest that we take those examples and make precedents for how xians today should act." He's not saying taking from the OT is scriptural rape. Take from the OT.
My question to you is WHO were Peter and James preaching to? And I think be telling you that it was THE CHURCH. NOT non-Christians. Which again is a statement I've tried to make... there's a turn or burn message for the CHRISTIANS and for THE JEWS but I haven't yet foudn an example that speaks condemnation, with no message of Gods grace.
Matt 25 is talking about people who are preparing them selves for the coming of Christ (10 Virgins), in the parable of the Talents it's about not using what God gives you, and the sheep and the goats is about his return and what ultimately happens (not to mention that is what Jesus is HE will say... he's not saying WE should say it).
The fact that the Gospel will be offensive will stand. People are offended by the Gospel when they hear that Jesus died for them.
Do you not remember Paul talking in Romans, "Be at peace with everyone so long as it's possible." ??? To me, that's not saying you have the right to give people a message of hell because it's what you think is right for them to hear. Rather, being at peace means something far, far greater than that.
Also, I believe I'm correct in saying that most of the Minor and Major Prophets (Jonah being I THINK (this is not an educated statement. It is purely from trying to remember what I"ve learned in the past) the only minor prophet who goes to another country and speaks God's word to them. The rest of the prophets were in regards to Israels... God's chosen people. Israel itself was *supposed* to do that by the way they lived.
yup you are correct, jonah was the first missionary so to speak! we (all creation) are the sons and daughters of Christ/God. Now as far as the scripture you are quoting from Romans, you need to take it in context, so read Romans 12:17-19 then tell me what the true context is..........
and I am not trying to make u feel bad, just saying take it in its entirety
the gospel, like life, is a coin: it has two sides
the reality of life is there is two ends, heaven, hell.......i do not see a third alternative
also- buddy that grabs the bullhorn, i agree it may not be right for you or for me, but the reality is it maybe right for someone
the problem with preaching a fluff gospel, a fluff religion for that matter, is when things get bad people bail
next, regarding the sheep and the goats, what do you mean we should not preach that? look at the facts, yes Christ was talking to a church/congregation, but that message in general is to be preached.
next Peter preached to the gentile church paul to the converted jews, again, in that mixture of folx do you not think a few unsaved were in the mix?
the church is one issue the unsaved another, i get that, but the Bible in its entirety is the emssage we have, good news - truth, reality
ok. So, I believe we're coming to more of a focus.
I don't mean to say that we shouldn't preach the goats and the sheep. Because it ultimately is a reality. And you are right, there are the two sides of the coin. And they both must be preached. What I'm getting at is one cannot be preached without the other. I think we can agree on that. Or I hope... Because if we just preach the grace, they won't have an understanding of what it is they are being saved from. We need to have that root understanding if we are going to fully live (I think).
I think we're on the same page here (over all).
Touche with the Romans quote.
However, it could be applied to the street corner preachers who want to use the gospel (or thier gospel) or really anyone for that matter, as their own personal weapon because they feel they've been wronged by society, wronged by a certain person, group, etc... would you agree? (honest question).
I don't want to give a fluff gospel. I want to give THE Gospel. But the Gospel isn't a message of condamnation, but rather of life. And often it is the opposite that is preached, or would you disagree?
Steve,
I only know (2) bullhorn type street ministers, and I have watched them lead people to Christ. They are faithful in thier approach week after week, day after day, and preach a hard hitting message, but anyone who does stop and listen can hear passion in thier voices and can tell it is a message out of love........
as far as what is and is not preached, i have not heard a lot of fire and brimstone sermons. the reality is that most pastors are in a church for a long period of time and are preaching to the converted. i agree that both sides need to be preached, but one needs to look at where the church has been and where it is trying to go! we have left an era of "seeker sensitive-non-offensive" services, and are caught up in some tide of "emerging/post mod" church .
altar calls are limited because we are not reaching those in our community, worship is mechanical, and overall services are incredibly scripted.no we can not hammer people week after week with "turn or burn" yet are we doing a dis-service by preaching a gospel of halves rather than wholes?
WOW..well said, anonymous..
Unfortunately, the church has become just at faddish as the world, if not more so..
Couple thoughts
Anon - Much dialogue has been around pulpit preaching...or street preaching... good dialogue but not the intent of my post... I personally agree with you that the church has lost its way in some ways but if preaching was goign to change the world it would have already done it... my point is ... when will we begin to draw out of people the work that God is already doing in their hearts?
The compelling element of Jesus' ministry is that people [seekers] were drawn to him because they inherently had an internal witness with the irresistable grace of Jesus.
Where is that happening today?
Very true Mark.
To listen to a message and to experience a very living and real God are two totally different things (however one can be accompanied by the other, but isn't always the case).
But Mark, is it our Job to draw out the work of God? Or is it God's job? Are we supposed to water? And weed? I don't know if we really can draw anything out. We can only water the seeds that are planted.
And as we water and plant, the enemy sows tares in with the wheat - they both grow together until the harvest and it God's job to judge the difference..often the difference is in the heart unseen from the eyes of man. We must be careful not to judge by what we see (either positive or negative)for God alone judges the thoughts and intents of our heart. Interesting that when wheat is ready for harvest it bows over, the tares remain standing upright...
The following is a posting from another blog: There is no doubt in my mind that this is exactly where the North American church is right now -
It's dangerous when any of us become "entitled" to things rather than recognizing that we have only been "entrusted" with them. Being entitled typically breeds elitism, hierarchy, and destructive codependency of the "have's" being mildly entertained by the "have-not's". Being entrusted typically breeds humility among a people who are everywhere at home while having nothing and yet possessing everything.
Entitlement is dangerous. People entitled to their position. People entitled to their opinion. People entitled to watching the world through a box while the world burns and floods around them. People entitled to their smoldering wicks and dry places.
There is a reason why the rod comforts. Imagine the rod of God's discipline coming down upon the peaked roof church and crushing the structure while everyone is within. Those who don't know what is going on scatter. They run from the sacred blow. Others reach up for that rod as it falls upon them. They feel the weight of it's discipline and yet they hold onto the rod as it is lifted out of the church.
Hold onto that rod as it rises up hard and fast - and you will be flung to the ends of the earth into the places where there is a witness of His glory needed. If you cannot take the rod then you will never wear a crown.
This is something that is happening to the whole Church. Not just you and your's. We are being prepared for a day of battle. As far as this generation goes it is the battle of battles. The enemy will not outflank us. We are in hiding. We will surface at just the right time in just the right place. We are following the orders of our King and marching secretly through the night and into twilight toward the rising Sun. He alone knows what awaits us there.
In the meantime, let's all take off our shoes, enter the chamber and wait for Him there.
I don't think that any "message" we have will save people, wether it be of "turn or burn" or "grace and love". i could argue till my face turned blue and i'd enjoy every last second of it (that's just me) but it wont accomplish anything for the kingdom.
God IS working in non-christians, and we need to be sensitive to what He's already doing and get on board with that. it has nothing to do with which approach is better or worse, but rather focusing on how God is already drawing them to Himself.
I often ignore the part of the Spirit in the whole process, and it becomes nothing more than a lifeless endeavour.
plus, I'd like to comment on when anonymous asked "God hasn't changed has He?"
He never changes, but He is personal. Just like how i will treat a little child differently from a grown business man. That doesn't mean that i changed who i am to accomodate them, but rather i know that they will react differently.
I think in the same way, the message of the Gospel needs to be explained differently for different audiences, cultures, or generations. and there are many examples of this even in the NT. focusing on different parts of his character don't always mean you are preaching a false gospel, but sometimes the Spirit is working with someone from a different angle, and maybe that other part will come in time.
are we to change the world? or are we to reach the world with the message of the gospel? reaching by no means means changing!
hearts change by unselfish acts, by the smallest gesture, just as hearts can change by the most incredible jesture, that is how life works
Anonymous...
You seem to be talking yourself in a circle. By your own description of change yes we are to change the world. We are to change the world through selfless acts and ultimately allowing people to embrace the selfless actions of Christ on their behalf.
it is not a circle mark, it is the point of who we are to be......brothers and sons and daughters of Christ/God/ HS.......
we are to embrace how He lived so we can be what He desires
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